Sunday, November 05, 2006

Rif Beitza 5a {Beitza 9a continues; 9b; 10b - 11a}



5a
{Beitza 9a continues}
from one window to another window {within the same dove-cote}.
And Bet Hillel permit.

Bet Shammai say: He may not move them {the birds on Yom Tov} unless he shook them {=handled them} while it was yet day {on erev Yom Tov}.
And Bet Hillel say: He stands and declares, "this and this I will take."

{Beitza 9b}
Gemara:
They learnt {in a brayta}: Rabbi Yehuda said: Where are these words said? By a ladder of a dove-cote. But by the ladder to an attic, all say it is forbidden.

{Beitza 10b}
Mishna:
If he designated black ones {fowl} and found white ones; white ones and found black ones; two and found three: they are forbidden. Three and found two: they are permitted.

Within the nest and he found in front of the nest: they are forbidden.
And if there are none there but these, they are permitted.

Gemara:
If he designated black ones and found white ones -- this is obvious!
Rava {our gemara: Rabba} said: What are we dealing with here? Where he designated black ones and white ones, and he arose early and discovered the black ones in the location of the white ones and the white ones in the location of the black ones. What might I have said? That these are the same ones and they switched places. Therefore it informs us that those {previous ones} went off into the world, and these are other ones.

{see Beitza 25a:} They learnt {in a brayta}: In what case are these words said? By the doves of a dove-cote, the doves of an attic, and by birds which nested in jars or in {the walls} of a mansion {our gemara lacks "or"}. But geese, chickens, and Herodian doves do not require designation because they are in the domain of man.

{Beitza 11a}
Mishna:
Bet Shammai say: We do not take a pestle to chop meat upon it.
And Bet Hillel permit.

Bet Shammai say: We do not take a hide where it will be trod upon {which works it}, and we do not lift it up unless there is flesh with it {our Mishna: an olive's measure of flesh with it}.
And Bet Hillel permit.

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