Tuesday, November 07, 2006

Rif Yomi Video Edition -- Beitza Daf 11 (runtime 13 min)

Runtime 13 min 8 secs

{Beitza 11a}
Bet Shammai say: We do not take a pestle to chop meat upon it.
And Bet Hillel permit.

Bet Shammai say: We do not take a hide where it will be trod upon {which works it}, and we do not lift it up unless there is flesh with it {our Mishna: an olive's measure of flesh with it}.
And Bet Hillel permit.

beitza 5b

{Beitza 11a continues}

תנא ושוין שאם קיצב עליו בשר שאסור לטלטלו
והני מילי מחמה לצל אבל לצורך גופו ולצורך מקומו מותר
כדאוקימנא לה בפרק כל הכלים:
A tanna taught: And they {Bet Shammai and Bet Hillel} are alike in that if he chopped meat on the pestle, it is forbidden to move it {the pestle}.
And these words are from sun to shade, but for its own purpose {letzorech gufo - in which one actually uses the item for a permitted task} of for its place {letzorech mekomo}, it is permitted.

בית שמאי אומרים אין נותנין את העור וכו':
תנא ושוין שמולחין עליו בשר לצלי
אמר אביי ל"ש אלא לצלי דלא בעי מליחה טפי אבל לקדרה דבעי מליחה טפי לא משום דמעבד ליה למשכא במילחא:

"Bet Shammai say: One may not place the hide {where it will be trodden upon}":
A tanna taught: And they are alike in that one may salt meat upon it for roasting {even though salt may also fall on the hide}.
Abaye said: They only learnt this regarding for roasting, which does not require much salting, but for {cooking in} a pot, which requires much salting, no, for he will work the hide {mashcha} with the salt.

ירושלמי ומערים ומלח הכא ומלח הכא עד דמלח כוליה
כלומר ממלח ע"ג העור מעט כאן ומעט כאן עד דמלח כוליה

Yerushalmi {Yerushalmi Beitza 7a}:
And he may be tricky and salt here and salt there until he salts all of it. {The girsa there in our Yerushalmi is actually ר' אחא בשם רב מולח ומערים מולח ומערים מלח הכא ומלח הכא עד דו מלח כוליה}

That is to say, he may salt {the meat} over the hide, a bit here and a bit here, until he has salted it all {= all of the hide}.

{In contrast, one could explain this Yerushalmi differently. The gemara in context:
שוין שלא ימלחנו
תני אבל הוא מולח עליו בשר לצלי
חברייא בשם רב מולח הוא אדם דבר מרובה אע"פ שאינו יכול לוכל ממנו אלא דבר ממועט
ר' אחא בשם רב מולח ומערים מולח ומערים מלח הכא ומלח הכא עד דו מלח כוליה
So first the chavraya say in the name of Rav that one may salt a lot of meat on Yom Tov, even though he will not eat all that meat on Yom Tov, perhaps because it is not that much extra work.
Rav Acha cited Rav in explanation of how to do it -- via halachic trickery. He states he wishes to eat the first piece of meat and so salts it. Then, he changes his mind and wishes to eat the next piece of meat instead. Thus, he can legitimately salt all of the meat.
Both readings are possible. Rif focuses more on the words hacha and hacha and the context granted by the Mishna and brayta about how one incidentally salts the hide as he salts the meat. But as we shall see, the latter reading matches that attributed to Shmuel in a bit. Thus, I would side against the Rif here.

ת"ר אין מולחין את החלבים ואין מהפכים בהן משום רבי יהושע אמרו שוטחן ברוח על גבי יתדות
אמר רב מתנה הלכה כר' יהושע
ואיכא דאמרי אמר רב מתנה אין הלכה כרבי יהושע
וסוגיין דעלמא כלישנא בתרא

The Sages learnt {in a brayta}:

We may not salt cheilev {forbidden-to-eat fats, which are permissible to be used for other purposes -- one may not salt on Yom Tov} nor may we turn them over {to prevent spoilage, to dry both sides}. In the name of Rabbi Yehoshua they said: He may spread them {the fats} over pegs {so that they are exposed to the air on all sides}.

Rav Matna said: The halacha is like Rabbi Yehoshua.
And some say: Rav Matna said: The halacha is not like Rabbi Yehoshua.

And sugyot in general go in accordance with the latter formulation. {Thus, Rif rules against Rabbi Yehoshua.}

{Beitza 11b}
א"ר יהודה אמר שמואל מולח אדם כמה חתיכות בבת אחת ואע"פ שאינו צריך אלא לחתיכה אחת
רב אדא בר אהבה (אמר) מערים ומלח גרמא גרמא:

Rav Yehuda cited Shmuel: One may salt many pieces at once, even though he only needs a single piece.
Rav Ada bar Ahava would be tricky and salt one piece at a time.
{Or, if we include the word אמר in there: Rav Ada bar Ahava said: He should be tricky and salt one piece at a time.}

מתני' בש"א אין מסלקין את התריסין ביו"ט
וב"ה מתירין אף להחזיר

בש"א אין מוציאין לא את הקטן ולא
את הלולב ולא את ס"ת לר"ה
וב"ה מתירין:

Bet Shammai say: We may not remove window shutters on Yom Tov {to display wares}.
And Bet Hillel permit even to return them {to their place}.

{Beitza 12a}
Bet Shammai say: We may not take out {from reshut hayachid} a child, a lulav, or a sefer Torah into the public domain {on Yom Tov}.
And Bet Hillel permit.

{Beitza 11a}

מאי תריסין
אמר עולא תריסי חנויות
ודוקא תריסי חנויות דבעי לאפוקי תבלין דאי לא שרית ליה להחזיר לא פתח ואתי לאימנועי משמחת יום טוב
אבל דבתי לא דכיון דברשותיה נינהו פתח ולא מימנע

What are window shutters?
Ulla said: The window shutters of shops. {=stalls}
And specifically the window shutters of shops, for they need to put out their spices, for if you do not permit them to return them, they will not open them, and one will come to hold back from rejoicing on Yom Tov.
But of houses, no {to returning them}, for since it is in his domain {and there is no worry about theft}, he will open it, and not come to refrain.

וכשיש להן ציר מן הצד כולי עלמא לא פליגי דאסור ואפי' דחנויות
ושאין להן ציר כל עיקר כולי עלמא לא פליגי דשרי ואפי' דבתי
בית שמאי סברי גזרינן משום שיש להן ציר מן הצד

And where they have a pivot on the side, all agree that it is forbidden.
{Diagram: [] is the window and each | is a pivot going from the shutter into the windowframe.}

Where it has no pivot, all agree that it is permitted.
Where do they argue? Where it has a single pivot in the middle.
{Diagram: [] is the window and each | is a pivot going from the shutter into the windowframe.}

Bet Shammai maintain that we decree because of the case of pivots on the side.
And Bet Hillel maintain that we do not decree.

אמר עולא ג' דברים התירו סופן משום תחלתן ואלו הן עור לפי הדורסן וחזרת רטיה במקדש ותריסי חנויות:

Ulla said: Three things they permitted their final stage because of their initial stage {that if one did not permit the final stage, people would not do the initial stage and thus refrain from simchat yom tov} and these are they: Placing hides where they might be trampled upon {which if we did not permit, people might not slaughter the animal}; replacing the dressing on a wound {of a kohen in the Bet haMikdash - the dressing on a wound is a chatzitza which the kohen must remove to perform the avoda, and if he cannot return it, he might not remove it, and then might refrain from performing the avoda}; and the shutters of shops {as above}.

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