Thursday, October 23, 2008

Rif Kiddushin 6b {12b - 13a}

{Kiddushin 12b}
and not because they hold like Shmuel. Rather because they hold like Abaye and Rava.

There was a certain man who betrothed with a myrtle branch in the marketplace.
Rav Huna bar Acha sent it {the case} before Rav Yosef. He send {back to him:} He should be lashed, in accordance with Rav, and he requires a get, in accordance with Shmuel.
For Rav would lash one who betrothed in the marketplace, and one who betrothed with sexual intercourse, and one who betrothed without shidduchim {preliminary negotiations before betrothal}, and one who nullified a {that is, his} get, and one who posted a legal notification {in front of witnesses} about a get {that it was given under duress}, and one who causes distress to an agent of Bet Din, one one upon whom the shamta {ban} of the rabbis for thirty days, and a groom who dwells in the house of his father-in-law. The Nehardeans say: Rav only lashed one who betrothed with intercourse, without shidduchim -- and some {versions?} say, even with shidduchim -- because of licentiousness.

There was a certain man who betrothed with a mat of myrtle {twigs}. They said to him: But there is not in it the value of a perutah? He said to them: Let her be betrothed to me with the for zuz which are in it.
She took it and was silent {and did not give it back to him}.
Rava said: This is silence which is after {rather than during} the giving of the money, and any silence after the giving of the money does not count as anything.
Rava said: From where do I say this? For they learnt {in a brayta}: If he said to her "take this sela as a pledge," and then turned around and said "become betrothed to me with it" -- if at the time of the giving of the money, she is betrothed. After the giving of the money, if she wishes, she is betrothed, but if she does not wish, she is not betrothed.

What is meant by "if she wishes" and what is meant by "if she does not wish?" If you say "if she wishes" means that she says "yes" while "if she does not wish" means that she says "no," we may deduce that in the resha,
{Kiddushin 13a}
where she said "no," she would still be betrothed -- but why? After all, she said "no." Rather, is it not that "if she wishes" means that she says "yes" while "if she does not wish" is that she is silent? And we derive from this that silence after {rather than during} the giving of the money is not considered anything.

They ask on this in Pum Nahara {a town near Nehardea} in the name of Rav Huna son of Rav Yehoshua: Is it really comparable? There, he gave it to her under the status of a pledge, such that she thought "if I cast it {back} to him, I will be responsible for it." Meanwhile here, he gave it to her with the status of {something for} betrothal. If it is so that she is not OK with it, let her cast it to him.
Rav Achai answered {this objection}: Do all women learn the laws? {such that they are aware of the distinction? perhaps even here she thought she would be responsible?}

Rav Acha bar Rav sent before Ravina {to find out the law}. He sent {back} to him: We have not heard this of Rav Huna son of Rav Yehoshua {and need not heed it}. You, who have heard it, should be concerned for it.

Therefore, to be divorced, she requires a get. And to enter {into marriage to this one}, she needs another betrothal, and the present betrothal is not sufficient.

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