Wednesday, June 08, 2005

Rif Shabbat 17b


{digression to Chullin 15b continues}

to a healthy person as a decree lest he increase on his behalf.

{return to Shabbat 38a}
"And Bet Hillel say: he may even return":
Rav Sheshet said: According to the one who maintains

{Shabbat 38b}
that one may replace it, one may replace it many times {even} on Shabbat.
And even Rabbi Oshiya holds that he may return it even on Shabbat, for Rabbi Oshiya said: We were once standing before Rabbi Chiyya Rabbah, and we brought up a kettle of hot water for him from the lower to the upper storey, mixed the cup {of wine with the hot water} for him, and then replaced it, and he said not a word to us.

Rabbi Zerika cited Rabbi Ami {our gemara: Rabbi Abba} who cited Rabbi Taddai: They only learned this {that he may return it} when it is still in his hand, but if he placed it upon the ground it is forbidden.

Rav Chizkiya cited Abaye: This that they said that while it is still in his hand, it is permitted - they only said this in the case that he has in mind to return it, but if he does not have in mind to return it, it is forbidden.

Thus, if he places it upon the ground, even though he has in mind to return it, it is forbidden.
{The Rif is citing here the first version of this statement in the gemara, and discarding the second.}

Rabbi Yirmiya asked: If he suspended them from a staff, what? If he suspended them on a bed {couch}, what? Teku. {The question stands.}

Rav Ashi asked: What if he emptied them from one kettle to another? Teku. {The question stands.}


IF A KIPPAH {a small stove or brazier} WAS HEATED WITH STUBBLE OR RAKINGS, IT IS LIKE A DOUBLE STOVE {the kira of the first Mishna}; WITH PEAT OR TIMBER, IT IS LIKE AN OVEN {the tanur of this Mishna}.

The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: If an oven was heated with stubble or rakings, one may not lean {a pot, etc.,} against it, and one need not say {that one may not place it} inside it, and one need not say on top of it, and one need not say if he heated it with peat or timber.

"A Kippa which was heated":
Rav Acha the son of Rava said to Rav Ashi: This kippa, how it is regarded? If it is like a double stove, even with peat and timber it should be permitted. And if it is like an oven, even with stubble or rakings it should be forbidden!
He said to him: Its heat is greater than a [double] stove's but less than an oven's.

And we deduce from this that anything which it is forbidden to leave {from before Shabbat} upon a double-stove unless it {the stove} is swept and covered, it is forbidden to leave upon a kippa, even if it is swept and covered. But hot water that has been heated sufficiently and cooked food that has cooked sufficiently, it is permitted to leave on a kippa, just as you may upon a double-stove. For even though it is forbidden to leave upon it, when it is not swept or covered, something that has not cooked sufficiently, but something that has cooked sufficiently, it is permitted, so too here {by kippa}, it is no different. {In other words, the kippa has the status in this respect of a double-stove which has not been swept or covered.}

And specifically something which shrinks and deteriorates, similar to a double-stove, but something that shrinks and improves, it is forbidden.

And what is a kippah and what is a [double] stove [kirah]?
Rabbi Yossi the son of Rabbi Chanina said: A [double] stove [kirah] has room for placing two pots.

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