Friday, January 04, 2008

Rif Nedarim 4b {14a - 15a}


Note: Here is the Rif Yomi video for Nedarim 14a - 15a. Runtime is 14 minutes.

{Nedarim 14a}

האומר לאשתו הרי את עלי כאימא כו':
ורמינהו הרי את עלי כבשר אימא כבשר אחותי כערלה וככלאי הכרם לא אמר כלום
אמר אביי לא אמר כלום מדאורייתא אבל צריך שאלה מדרבנן
רבא אמר הא בת"ח הא בע"ה
דתניא הנודר בתורה לא אמר כלום וא"ר יוחנן וצריך שאלה לחכם מדרבנן
וא"ר נחמן אם ת"ח הוא א"צ.
"If one said to his wife, 'behold you are unto me like my mother, etc.":
And they objected: "If one says to his wife, 'Behold! you are to me as the flesh of my mother, as the flesh of my sister, as 'orlah,' as kil'ayim of the vineyard, he has not said anything."

Abaye said: He has not said anything -- on a Biblical level, but he requires asking {for release} Rabbinically.
Rava said: This is by a Torah scholar, and this is by an ignoramus.

For they learnt {in a brayta}: One who vows by the Torah has not said anything.
And Rabbi Yochanan said: And {yet} it requires asking {for release} to a Sage, Rabbinically.
And Rav Nachman said: He is a Torah scholar, and does not need.

{Nedarim 14b}
תניא הנודר בתורה לא אמר כלום
במה שכתוב בתורה דבריו קיימין
בה ובמה שכתוב בה דבריו קיימין

השתא במה שכתוב בתורה דבריו קיימין בה ובמה שכתוב בה מבעיא
אמר רב נחמן ל"ק הא דמחתא אורייתא אארעא הא דנקיט לה בידי'

מחתא אארעא דעתיה עליה נקט לה בידיה (כי) דעתיה אהזכרות שבה
ואבע"א דמחתא אארעא והא קמ"ל דאע"ג דמחתא אארעא אי אמר במה שכתוב בה מהני (וזו ואצ"ל זו קתני)
ואיבעית אימא מציעתא נמי דנקיט לה בידיה וקמשמע לן כיון דנקיט לה בידיה אף על גב דלא אמר אלא בה כמ"ד במה שכתוב בה דמי.
They learnt {in a brayta}: If one vows by the Torah, he has not said anything. By what is written in the Torah, his words stand. By is and by what is written in it, his words stand.

Now that {where he says} "in what is written in Torah," his words stand, "it and what is written in it," do we need?
Rav Nachman said: This is no question. Here is where the Torah is lying on the ground, while here is where he took it in hand.

If it is lying on the ground, his mind is upon it, but if he took it in his, his mind is on the Divine Names therein.
And if you want I will say that it is in fact lying on the ground, and this informs us that, even though it is lying on the ground, if he said "with what is written therein," it works. (* And it is {his words were in the style of} "this and it need not be said this. *)
And if you want I will say the intermediate case as well, that he is holding it in his hand, and it informs us that since he holds it in his hand, even though he only said "it" {and not what is in it}, he is just like one who said "in what is written therein."

אתמר קונם עיני בשינה היום אם אישן למחר
א"ר יהודה אמר רב אל יישן היום חיישינן שמא יישן למחר
ורב נחמן אמר יישן היום ולא חיישינן שמא יישן למחר
ומודה רב יהודה באומר קונם שאיני ישן למחר אם אישן היום שיישן היום כי לא מזדהר בתנאיה אבל באיסוריה מזדהר.
It was stated {by Amoraim}: "Konam my eyes from sleeping today, if I sleep tomorrow."
Rav Yehuda cited Rav: He may not sleep that day, for we fear lest he sleep the next day.
And Rav Nachman said: He may sleep today, and we do not fear that he will sleep tomorrow.
And Rav Yehuda admits by one who says "konam that I will not sleep tomorrow, if I sleep today," that he may sleep today {and allow the vow for tomorrow to take hold},
{Nedarim 15a}
for he will not lax in his condition {which causes the vow to take hold}, but he will not be lax in his prohibition.

תנן קונם שאני ישן שאני מדבר שאני מהלך
ה"ד אילימא כדקתני שאני ישן מי הוי נדרא והתנן חומר בשבועה שהשבועה חלה על דבר שיש בו ממש ועל דבר שא"ב ממש משא"כ בנדרים ושינה דבר שא"ב ממש הוא אלא דקאמר קונם עיני בשינה

ואי לא יהיב שיעורא מי שבקינן ליה עד דעביד איסורא
והא"ר יוחנן שבועה שלא אישן ג' ימים מלקין אותו ויישן לאלתר
אמר רבינא לעולם כדקתני ומאי בל יחל דרבנן
ומי איכא בל יחל דרבנן
והתניא דברים המותרים ואחרים נוהגים בהם איסור אי אתה רשאי לנהוג בהם היתר כדי לבטלן שנאמר לא יחל דברו
They learnt {in a Mishna}: Konam that I sleep, that I speak, that I walk.

How so? If as is stated in the Mishna, how is "that I sleep" a vow? But they learnt {in a Mishna}: A stringency by oaths, in that an oath applies to something that has substance and something that lacks substance, which is not the case by vows. And sleep is something which lacks substance! Rather, that he stated "konam my eyes in regard to sleep."

And if he did not give a measure, would we indeed leave him until he committed a prohibition? But Rabbi Yochanan said: An oath that I will not sleep for three days, we lash him and he sleeps immediately!
{and they attempt to reinterpret the Tannaitic statement to stand in contradiction to Rav Yehuda. So which we reply}
Ravina said: In truth, it is as we taught, and what is "he shall not break {his word}?" Rabbinically.
And is there a Rabbinic "he shall not break?" Yes. As it was taught: If there were permitted things and others practiced in them prohibition, you are not permitted to treat them as permitted in order to nullify them {our gemara: rather than "in order to nullify them," "in their presence"}. For it is stated {Bemidbar 33}: "He shall not break his word."

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