Friday, September 15, 2006

Rif Succah 7b {Succah 14a continues; 15a}


{Succah 14a continues}
If he places upon it a board which is four handbreadths wide, it is valid, so long as he does not sleep underneath it.

Rav said: The dispute {between Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Meir} is in regard to boards whose width is four handbreaths. That Rabbi Meir has the decree of "ceiling" {a precautionary measure lest he come to make a ceiling} and Rabbi Yehuda does not have the decree of "ceiling." But as regards boards which are less that four handbreaths, all say that it is valid.

And Shmuel said: The dispute is in regard to those whose width is less than four handbreadths, but if they have four {handbreadths}, all say that it is invalid.

{Ragarding Shmuel's explanation of the dispute:} If they did not have four handbreadths ... and they are even less than three handbreadths ... why, they are merely reeds! {So why should Rabbi Meir forbid?}

Rav Papa said: All agree that if they have four handbreadths, it is invalid. Less than three {handbreadths}, all agree that it is valid. When do they argue? From three until four. One master {=Rabbi Yehuda} maintains that since they do not have the measure of a place {=four handbreadths} we do not decree. And one master {Rabbi Meir} maintains that since they have exited the status of lavud {defined as three handbreadths} we do decree.

And the halacha is like Shmuel, for Rav Papa maintains like him. And further, the sugya in our gemara {in the discussion of the gemara} goes like him.

A brayta in accordance with Shmuel: If he made schach of boards which had four {handbreadths} it is invalid; if it does not have four, Rabbi Meir invalidates and Rabbi Yehuda validates. And Rabbi Meir admits that if there is between one board and the next the width of a board, that he may place pesel {=the residue that is left after threshing grain and pressing grapes} between them and it is valid. And Rabbi Yehuda admits that if he places a board which is four handbreadths there, it is valid yet we do not sleep under it, and one who sleeps under it does not fulfil his obligation.

It was stated {by Amoraim}:
If they turned on their sides these boards which were four handbreadths wide {so that they are no longer so wide but rather so high}:
Rav Huna said: It is invalid.
And Rav Chisda and Rabba bar Rav Huna said: It is valid.

Rav Nachman visited Sura. Rav Chisda and Rabba bar Rav Huna entered to visit him. They said to him: If he turned them on their sides, what {is the law}?
He said to them: It is invalid.
(*Perforce) they are made into metal rods {that are invalid regardless}.
And so is the halacha.

{Succah 15a}
If small rafters, over which is no ceiling {is intended to be used as schach}: Rabbi Yehuda said in the name of Bet Hillel:

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