Thursday, May 04, 2006

Rif Pesachim 23a {Bava Batra 96a continues; Pesachim 107b - 108b}


{Bava Batra 96a continues}
The first three days are certain. From then on it is a case of doubt.

What does this mean?
Rabbi Yochanan said: This is what it means to say: The first three days are certainly wine. From then on it is a case of doubt.

What is the reason? Because wine begins to deteriorate from above, and he had tasted it and determined that {at that point} it had not deteriorated.
And if you try to say that it deteriorated immediately after, its smell is venegar and its taste is wine, and anything which smells like vinegar and tastes like wine is wine.

And even though Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi objected and said that anything which smells like vinegar and tastes like wine is vinegar, and we do not know like whom Rav Yosef resolved this, we find that Abaye and Rava argue in this dispute in Avoda Zara in perek haSocher et haPoel. For it was stated {by Amoraim}: wine in vinegar, all agree {that it has an impact with the amount} if it is noten taam {imparts taste}. Wine into vinegar, Abaye said: in any amount -- for if it smells like vinegar and tastes like wine, it is vinegar. And Rava said: if it is noten taam -- for if it smells like vinegar and tastes like wine, it is wine.

And we have established that the halacha is like Rava, and since Rabbi Yochanan establishes like Rava and Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi establishes like Abaye, we automatically deduce that the halacha is like Rabbi Yochanan.

And dregs upon which one casts water, even though it has the taste of wine, we do not bless upon it Borei Peri haGafen, for we say {Bava Batra 97a}:
Rav Nachman inquired of Rabbi Chiyya: Dregs which have the taste of wine, what?
He said to him: Do you think it is wine? It merely is a blunter {of teeth}.

{Pesachim 107b}
"Close to mincha, one should not eat until it becomes dark...":
What is the reason?
Lest he come to eat matza in gluttonous eating. {achila gasa}

Rav Assi {our gem: Yossi} said: But he may dip {מטבל} with various sweetmeats {Soncino: fruit or meat without bread - these were generally dipped in a relish}

To explain מטבל - it means מטפל {thus the Rif switches the voiced bilabial plosive b for the unvoiced bilabial plosive p, a phonetic phenomenon which is not unknown - consider the Arabic tendency to talk of botatoes and barking lots.} That is to say, he brings his bread through various sweetmeats, such as fruits, kitniyot {legumes}, and the like.

Rabbi Tzadok would be מטבל {either would dip with, or according to Rif, dip into} vegetables.

A brayta also says so: The attendant {shamash} may be מטבל with the innards and place it before the guests. And although there is no proof to the matter, there is a hint to the matter, for it is stated {Yirmiyahu 4:3}:

ג כִּי-כֹה אָמַר יְה, לְאִישׁ יְהוּדָה וְלִירוּשָׁלִַם, נִירוּ לָכֶם, נִיר; וְאַל-תִּזְרְעוּ, אֶל-קֹצִים. 3 For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and to Jerusalem: break up for you a fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
{and see commentaries (e.g. Rashi) for exactly how this hints at this. it would seem that the idea is not to put food =matza into a fallow and empty ground, but prepare it beforehand by eating at least something}.

Rava would drink wine the entire day of erev Pesach in order to encourage his heart {apetite?} in order to enjoy the matza at night.

{Pesachim 108a}
"And even the poorest Israelite should not eat unless he reclines":
It was stated {by Amoraim}:
Matza requires reclining. Maror does not require reclining.
Wine - it was stated in the name of Rav Nachman that it requires reclining, and it was stated in the name of Rav Nachman that it does not require reclining.
And they do not argue. This is as regards the first two cups, and this is as regards the last two cups.

Some say it to this side and some say it to that side.
Some say it to this side, that the final two cups require reclining for there was to us freedom. The first two cups do not require reclining for we did not yet have freedom, for we are still saying that were slaves.
And some say it to that side, that the first two cups require reclining for at that time there was freedom {from the slavery}. The final two cups do not require reclining for what was, was.

And now that it is stated like this and like that, they all require reclining.

Lying on the back is not considered reclining. Reclining on the right side is not considered reclining. And not only that, but there is a fear lest the food enter the windpipe before the gullet and he come to danger.

A woman does not require reclining. And if she is an important woman, she requires reclining.
A son by his father requires reclining.
A student by his teacher, what?
Come and hear, for Abaye said: When we were in the house of Master {=Rabba bar Rav Nachman}, we reclined on each other's knees. When we came to the house of Rav Yosef, he told us: You need not do this, for the fear of your teacher is like the fear of Heaven.

It was a question to them: An attendant {at the meal}, what?
And we conclude that he requires reclining.

Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: {Pesachim 108b} Women are obligated in these four cups, for they too were in that miracle.

Rav Yehuda cited Shmuel: These four cups require that they have in them sufficient for the mixing of a good cup {defined elsewhere perhaps as 1 part wine and 3 parts water}. If he drank them unmixed, he fulfilled the obligation of four cups but did not fulfill "freedom." If he drank them at one time, he fulfilled "freedom" but did not fulfill four cups.
If he gave to his sons and the members of his household to drink, he fulfilled.
Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak said: Provided that he drank the majority of the cup.

The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: These four cups need to have in them {J: likely that the sum of them must have in them} a reviit. This is so for men, women, and children. Rabbi Yehuda said: And of

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