beitza 3a
{Beitza 5b continues}
an egg is forbidden {on the second day}. For would Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai not admit that if witnesses come from michna and on, they treat both that day and the next day as holy? {For the edict was only in terms of counting from each day, but the holiness aspect of it stuck as with the original edict.} Thus, it is clear that they have a single holiness, and an egg would be forbidden on both of them {the days of Rosh haShana}.
And we derive from this that residents of Eretz Yisrael are required to make two days of Yom Tov of Rosh haShana.
{Beitza 6a}
Rava said: A corpse on the first day of Yom Tov, gentiles deal with it. On the second day of Yom Tov, Israelites deal with it. And even on the two days of Yom Tov of Rosh haShana {this distinction is made}, which is not the case as regards an egg.
Rav Zutra {our gem: Mar Zutra} said: They only said this where it {the burial} had been delayed {and they feared the corpse would rot}, but if had not already been delayed, we postpone it {until after Yom Tov}.
And Rav Ashi said: Even if had not been delayed, we do not postpone it.
What is the reason? Yom Tov as regards a corpse the Sages made like weekday, and even to cut shrouds for it or to cut myrtles for it.
Ravina was sitting before Rav Ashi on the two days of Yom Tov
Tuesday, October 31, 2006
Rif Beitza 3a {Beitza 5b continues; 6a}
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Monday, October 30, 2006
Rif Beitza 2b {Beitza 4a continues; 5a - 5b}
beitza 2b
{Beitza 4a continues}
the majority is permitted, these {forbidden ones} are nullified in the majority, and he is turning over the permitted.
And even though we establish that we may not nullify something prohibited lechatchila {ab initio}, these words refer to a Biblical prohibition, but a Rabbinic prohibition we may nullify lechatchila.
And even though we establish like Rav Ashi who said that any thing which will eventually be permitted, even in 1000 does not nullify, and even if {the nature of the prohibition is} Rabbinic, and these branches which fell from the palm tree on Yom Tov are something which will eventually become permitted, for today that are prohibited and tomorrow they are permitted, these words are where the prohibited item is in its form {be'en}, but here, the prohibition is reducing {as it burns}.
{Beitza 5a}
Rabba said: From the edict of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai and on, an egg {laid on the first day of Rosh haShana} is permitted on the second day of Yom Tov of Rosh haShana. {Ran: There was an edict that they did not accept witnesses that the day was Rosh haShana from mincha and on, but rather they concretized the assumption that the next day was Rosh haShana. Yet since the majority of the first day had passed in holiness, it was decreed that the rest of the day also should be treated with holiness. When the Temple was destroyed, Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai decreed that they could accept testimony all day long, since the cause for the original edict, of messing up the song of the day, was inapplicable. With Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai's edict in place, there is no longer a single holiness to the day. Thus, it stands to reason, says Rabba, that an egg laid on the first day of Rosh haShana is permitted on the second, since there are two seperate kedushot, and one of the two days is there just because of safek, just as by other Yamim Tovim.}
For they learned {in a Mishna}: Once the Temple was destroyed, Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai established that they should accept the testimony of establishing the month all day {thus overturning the initial edict}.
Abaye said to him {Rabba}: But Rav and Shmuel both say that an egg is forbidden.
And we answer: this is no question. This is for us and that is for them. {Ran: That is, it is a Bavel/Eretz Yisrael distinction. To explain, for the residents of Bavel, nothing changed with the edict of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai, since they did not accept testimony at all in Bavel, and so they always did not know, there was no overt difference before and after the edict. But for the peolpe of Eretz Yisrael, since they see the difference, they will know why it is permitted, and so it is permitted.}
{Beitza 5b}
And we conclude: Rava said: Even after the edict of Rabban Yochanan ben Zakkai,
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Rif Beitza 2a {Beitza 4b continues; 3b; 4a}
beitza 2a
{Beitza 4b continues}
And an egg which was laid on Shabbat or Yom Tov, it is no question that eating it is forbidden, but even moving it is forbidden,
{Beitza 3b}
For they learnt {in a brayta}: both an egg which was laid on Yom Tov and an egg which was laid on Shabbat, we do not move it, not to cover a vessel nor to support the legs of a bed therewith, but we may upturn a vessel upon it such that it does not break, and its doubt {that it was laid on this day} is forbidden, and if it was mixed with 1000, they are all forbidden.
And this that we said {above}, "Shabbat and Yom Tov {one after another}, what is laid on this one is forbidden in that one," it does not matter whether it is Shabbat after Yom Tov or Yom Tov after Shabbat, for we establish like Rabba that weekday prepares for Shabbat and weekday prepares for Yom Tov, but Yom Tov does not prepare for Shabbat and Shabbat does not prepare for Yom Tov.
{Beitza 4a}
And a brayta also says so: It it was laid on Shabbat it may be eaten on Yom Tov. If it was laid on Yom Tov it may be eaten on Shabbat. Rabbi Yehuda says in the name of Rabbi Eliezer: This is still an instance of dispute. For Bet Shammai say it may be eaten and Bet Hillel say it may not be eaten.
And we establish like Rabbi Yehuda.
And we also say: The host of Rav Ada bar Ahava had these eggs from Yom Tov to Shabbat {and it was Yom Tov}. He came before him. He said to him {Rav Ada}: May one roast them today in order to eat them tomorrow?
He {Rav Ada} said: What are your thoughts? That {in case of dispute between} Rav and Rabbi Yochanan, the halacha is like Rabbi Yochanan? Until this point Rabbi Yochanan only permitted to swallow {in this case, raw} on the next day. But to handle it in its day, no.
For they learnt {in a brayta}: Both an egg which was laid on Shabbat and an egg which was laid on Yom Tov, we do not move it, not to cover a vessel with it nor to support the legs of a bed.
The host of Rav Pappa had these eggs from Shabbat going into Yom Tov. He came before Rav Pappa {on Shabbat}. He said to him {Rav Pappa}: May one eat them tomorrow?
He {Rav Pappa} said to him: Go now, and come {back} tomorrow {and ask again}, for Rav would not appoint an Amorah {expounder} by himself from Yom Tov{'s commencement} until the next day, because of intoxication.
When he came the next day, he said to him: Had I not waited until today I would have erred and told you that {in case of dispute between} Rav and Rabbi Yochanan, the halacha is like Rabbi Yochanan. {However}, So said Rava: The halacha is like Rav in these three, whether lenient or stringent.
And branches which fell off of a palm tree on Shabbat, it is forbidden to burn them on Yom Tov by themselves because of the hachana of Rabba. And if they fell from a palm tree on Yom Tov, it is forbidden to burn them on Yom Tov by themselves because of nolad, and the Sages forbad them lest he ascend and separate {them from the tree himself}. But if they fell directly from the tree into the oven, we may do with them as Rav Matna.
For Rav Matna said: Branches which fell from the palm tree into the oven on Yom Tov, he may increase upon them prepared wood and use it as firewood. And even though he turns over the forbidden {wood}, since
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Rif Yomi Video Edition -- On Beitza daf 4 -- Video, Images, Text
Here is a video of Rif on daf yomi Betiza daf 4. Pages on the bottom:
Video:
1b
{Beitza 4a}
It was stated {by Amoraim}:
Shabbat and Yom Tov {one after the other}:
Rav said: That which is laid on this one is forbidden on that one.
And Rabba Yochanan said: That which is laid on this one is permitted on that one.
And they argue in specifically this hachana of Rabba.
{Beitza 4b}
And we rule like Rav, for Rava said: The halacha is like Rav in these three, whether leniently or stringently. One, this that we have said. And another, this that was stated {by Amoraim}: The two days of Yom Tov of exile {the second one because of doubt as to the day}, Rav said: what was laid on this one is permitted on that one, and Rav Assi said: That which was laid on this one is forbidden on that one. And another, this that was stated {by Amoraim}: The two days of Yom Tov of Rosh haShana, Rav and Shmuel both say that if it was laid on this it is forbidden on that.
beitza 2a
{Beitza 4b continues}
And an egg which was laid on Shabbat or Yom Tov, it is no question that eating it is forbidden, but even moving it is forbidden,
{Beitza 3b}
For they learnt {in a brayta}: both an egg which was laid on Yom Tov and an egg which was laid on Shabbat, we do not move it, not to cover a vessel nor to support the legs of a bed therewith, but we may upturn a vessel upon it such that it does not break, and its doubt {that it was laid on this day} is forbidden, and if it was mixed with 1000, they are all forbidden.
And this that we said {above}, "Shabbat and Yom Tov {one after another}, what is laid on this one is forbidden in that one," it does not matter whether it is Shabbat after Yom Tov or Yom Tov after Shabbat, for we establish like Rabba that weekday prepares for Shabbat and weekday prepares for Yom Tov, but Yom Tov does not prepare for Shabbat and Shabbat does not prepare for Yom Tov.
{Beitza 4a}
And a brayta also says so: It it was laid on Shabbat it may be eaten on Yom Tov. If it was laid on Yom Tov it may be eaten on Shabbat. Rabbi Yehuda says in the name of Rabbi Eliezer: This is still an instance of dispute. For Bet Shammai say it may be eaten and Bet Hillel say it may not be eaten.
And we establish like Rabbi Yehuda.
And we also say: The host of Rav Ada bar Ahava had these eggs from Yom Tov to Shabbat {and it was Yom Tov}. He came before him. He said to him {Rav Ada}: May one roast them today in order to eat them tomorrow?
He {Rav Ada} said: What are your thoughts? That {in case of dispute between} Rav and Rabbi Yochanan, the halacha is like Rabbi Yochanan? Until this point Rabbi Yochanan only permitted to swallow {in this case, raw} on the next day. But to handle it in its day, no.
For they learnt {in a brayta}: Both an egg which was laid on Shabbat and an egg which was laid on Yom Tov, we do not move it, not to cover a vessel with it nor to support the legs of a bed.
The host of Rav Pappa had these eggs from Shabbat going into Yom Tov. He came before Rav Pappa {on Shabbat}. He said to him {Rav Pappa}: May one eat them tomorrow?
He {Rav Pappa} said to him: Go now, and come {back} tomorrow {and ask again}, for Rav would not appound an Amorah {expounder} by himself from Yom Tov{'s commencement} until the next day, because of intoxication.
When he came the next day, he said to him: Had I not waited until today I would have erred and told you that {in case of dispute between} Rav and Rabbi Yochanan, the halacha is like Rabbi Yochanan. {However}, So said Rava: The halacha is like Rav in these three, whether lenient or stringent.
And branches which fell off of a palm tree on Shabbat, it is forbidden to burn them on Yom Tov by themselves because of the hachana of Rabba. And if they fell from a palm tree on Yom Tov, it is forbidden to burn them on Yom Tov by themselves because of nolad, and the Sages forbad them lest he ascend and separate {them from the tree himself}. But if they fell directly from the tree into the oven, we may do with them as Rav Matna.
For Rav Matna said: Branches which fell from the palm tree into the oven on Yom Tov, he may increase upon them prepared wood and use it as firewood. And even though he turns over the forbidden {wood}, since
beitza 2b
{Beitza 4a continues}
the majority is permitted, these {forbidden ones} are nullified in the majority, and he is turning over the permitted.
And even though we establish that we may not nullify something prohibited lechatchila {ab initio}, these words refer to a Biblical prohibition, but a Rabbinic prohibition we may nullify lechatchila.
And even though we establish like Rav Ashi who said that any thing which will eventually be permitted, even in 1000 does not nullify, and even if {the nature of the prohibition is} Rabbinic, and these branches which fell from the palm tree on Yom Tov are something which will eventually become permitted, for today that are prohibited and tomorrow they are permitted, these words are where the prohibited item is in its form {be'en}, but here, the prohibition is reducing {as it burns}.
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Rif Beitza 1b {Beitza 3b continues; 4a - 4b}
1b
{Beitza 3b continues}
The weekday {may/does} prepare for Shabbat, and the weekday {may} prepare for Yom Tov, but Yom Tov may not prepare for Shabbat, and Shabbat may not prepare for Yom Tov.
Abaye said: But now, Yom Tov by itself {and not following Shabbat, if the egg was laid on it} should be permitted! A decree upon Yom Tov in general because of Yom Tov which falls after Shabbat. {If it was laid on} Shabbat in general it should be permitted! A decree because of Shabbat after Yom Tov.
He {Abaye} said to him: And do we indeed decree? But they learnt {in a brayta}: If one slaughters a hen and finds within her completed eggs, it is permitted to eat them on Yom Tov.
And if this is so, let us decree {on these unlaid eggs} because of those which are laid on their day!
He {=Rabba} said to him: Completed eggs in their mother's womb are something which is uncommon, and something which is uncommon the Sages did not decree upon.
{Beitza 4a}
It was stated {by Amoraim}:
Shabbat and Yom Tov {one after the other}:
Rav said: That which is laid on this one is forbidden on that one.
And Rabba Yochanan said: That which is laid on this one is permitted on that one.
And they argue in specifically this hachana of Rabba.
{Beitza 4b}
And we rule like Rav, for Rava said: The halacha is like Rav in these three, whether leniently or stringently. One, this that we have said. And another, this that was stated {by Amoraim}: The two days of Yom Tov of exile {the second one because of doubt as to the day}, Rav said: what was laid on this one is permitted on that one, and Rav Assi said: That which was laid on this one is forbidden on that one. And another, this that was stated {by Amoraim}: The two days of Yom Tov of Rosh haShana, Rav and Shmuel both say that if it was laid on this it is forbidden on that.
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Saturday, October 28, 2006
Rif Beitza 1a {Beitza 2a - 3b}
HIDE/SHOW IMAGE
{Beitza 2a}
Mishna:
An egg which was laid on Yom Tov:
Bet Shammai say: It may be eaten.
And Bet Hillel say: It may not be eaten.
Bet Shammai say: Leaven {=sourdough} in an olive's measure {must be removed for Pesach} and chametz {which has become leavened via sourdough} the size of a date.
And Bet Hillel say: Both this and that with an olive's measure.
Gemara:
With what are we dealing?
If you say with a hen which stands to be eaten, what is the reason of Bet Hillel?! It is food which {merely} splits. But if with a hen which stands to produce eggs, what is the reason of Bet Shammai?! It is muktzeh {since it was not muchan, prepared, from before}!
{Beitza 3b}
And Rabba establishes as as dealing with a hen which stands to be eaten, and we are dealing with a case of Yom Tov which falls after Shabbat, and because of a problem of hachana. And Rabba maintains that any egg laid now was finished yesterday.
Rabba is consistent, for Rabba said {Shemot 16:5}:
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Monday, October 23, 2006
Rif Beitza Video Edition 1a-1b {Beitza 2a-3b}
I'm going to try my hand at video blogging, including video-blogging the Rif. The format is a work in progress - I may modify it as this progresses. Running time: 11 minutes.
Right click to open these images in another tab, though I include the relevant portion of gemara in the video.
Rif Beitza 1a
Rif Beitza 1b
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Friday, October 20, 2006
beitza 7a draft
אבל לדידן כותשין במכתשת קטנה
דתניא אין כותשין במכתשת גדולה אבל כותשין במכתשת קטנה ואוקימנא לבני בבל:
And this brayta we establish as being for residents of Eretz Yisrael {since they had servants who would disregard and use a large mortar}, but for us, we may crush with a small mortar, for they learnt {in another brayta}: We may not crush with a large mortar but we may crush with a small mortar. And we establish {this brayta} as being for the residents of Bavel.
Rav Papi visited the house of Mar Shmuel. They brought him some daysa {also wheat grits, just like tisni, but not crushed so finely. tisni is broken into four pieces each, and this into less bits} and he did not eat it.
And perhaps it was made with a small mortar?
He saw that it was fine{ly crushed, meaning that a large mortar was used}.
And perhaps it was made the previous day?
He saw that it was streaked {white, and thus had been just made}.
And if you wish I will say that the house of Mar Shmuel is different because there is the lack of care by the servants {who may have used a large mortar -- the same as in Eretz Yisrael}.
Mishna:
רבן גמליאל אומר אף מדיח ושולה:
Bet Shammai say he must separate the food {from the impurities} and eat.
And Bet Hillel say: He may separate in his usual manner, {the Mishna in our gemara adds: in his lap,} with a funnel, or a plate, but not with a board, a fine sieve, or a coarse sieve.
Rabban Gamliel says: He may even rinse and skim.
Gemara:
פסולת מרובה על האוכל פשיטא מי איכא מאן דשרי
לא צריכא דנפיש בטירחא וזוטר בשיעורא:
If the impurities are more than the food -- this is obvious! Would there be any one who would permit?
No, it is needed -- where it is more in terms of effort but less in terms of measure.
Mishna:
משלחין יינות שמנים וסלתות וקטניות אבל לא תבואה
ר"ש מתיר בתבואה
Bet Shammai say: One may only send {prepared} portions on Yom Tov.
And Bet Hillel say: One may send domesticated animals, wild animals and fowl alive and slaughtered. {the Mishna in our Gemara: whether alive or slaughtered}
One may send wines, oils, flours, and legumes, but not grain. {since one cannot do anything with grain, since because one could have ground it before Yom Tov, one cannot grind it on Yom Tov}
Rabbi Shimon permits with grain.
Gemara:
A tanna taught {tna}: A "line" is no less than three men.
"Rabbi Shimon permits with grain": wheat, to make pounded wheat {assasit; our gemara has ludiyot, a wheat dish}; barley, to place before his animal; lentils, to make groats.
Mishna:
אבל לא סנדל מסומר ולא מנעל שאינו תפור
רבי יהודה אומר אף לא מנעל לבן מפני שהוא צריך אומן
זה הכלל כל שנאותין בו ביו"ט משלחין אותו:
Rabbi Yehuda says: Not even a white shoe, because it needs a craftsman {to blacken it}.
This is the general rule: Whatever may be used, on Yom Tov we may send it.
Gemara:
וכ"ת חזו למזגא עלייהו והתניא לא יעלה עליך אבל אתה מציע תחתיך אבל אמרו חכמים אסור לעשות כן גזירה שמא תכרך נימא אחת על בשרו
וכי תימא דמפסיק מידי ביני ביני והאמר רבי שמעון בן פזי אמר רבי יוסי בן שאול משום קהלא קדישא שבירושלים אפי' עשר מצעות זו על גבי זו וכלאים ביניהן אסור לישן עליהן
And if you say that it is fit for folding underneath you {need textual emendation here}? But they learnt {in a brayta}:
{Vayikra 19:19}:
And if you say that {this is a case where} something separates in between {the shaatnez and ihs flesh}. But Rabbi Shimon ben Pazi cited Rabbi Yossi ben Shaul in the name of the holy congregation in Yerushalayim that even ten {bed}spreads one atop the other, and shaatnez between them {emend to: underneath them} it is forbidden to sleep upon them.
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Labels: beitza
beitza 5b draft
beitza 5b
{Beitza 11a continues}
And these words are from sun to shade, but for its own purpose {letzorech gufo - in which one actually uses the item for a permitted task} of for its place {letzorech mekomo}, it is permitted.
תנא ושוין שמולחין עליו בשר לצלי
אמר אביי ל"ש אלא לצלי דלא בעי מליחה טפי אבל לקדרה דבעי מליחה טפי לא משום דמעבד ליה למשכא במילחא:
"Bet Shammai say: One may not place the hide {where it will be trodden upon}":
A tanna taught: And they are alike in that one may salt meat upon it for roasting {even though salt may also fall on the hide}.
Abaye said: They only learnt this regarding for roasting, which does not require much salting, but for {cooking in} a pot, which requires much salting, no, for he will work the hide {mashcha} with the salt.
כלומר ממלח ע"ג העור מעט כאן ומעט כאן עד דמלח כוליה
Yerushalmi {Yerushalmi Beitza 7a}:
And he may be tricky and salt here and salt there until he salts all of it. {The girsa there in our Yerushalmi is actually ר' אחא בשם רב מולח ומערים מולח ומערים מלח הכא ומלח הכא עד דו מלח כוליה}
That is to say, he may salt {the meat} over the hide, a bit here and a bit here, until he has salted it all {= all of the hide}.
{In contrast, one could explain this Yerushalmi differently. The gemara in context:
שוין שלא ימלחנו
תני אבל הוא מולח עליו בשר לצלי
חברייא בשם רב מולח הוא אדם דבר מרובה אע"פ שאינו יכול לוכל ממנו אלא דבר ממועט
ר' אחא בשם רב מולח ומערים מולח ומערים מלח הכא ומלח הכא עד דו מלח כוליה
So first the chavraya say in the name of Rav that one may salt a lot of meat on Yom Tov, even though he will not eat all that meat on Yom Tov, perhaps because it is not that much extra work.
Rav Acha cited Rav in explanation of how to do it -- via halachic trickery. He states he wishes to eat the first piece of meat and so salts it. Then, he changes his mind and wishes to eat the next piece of meat instead. Thus, he can legitimately salt all of the meat.
Both readings are possible. Rif focuses more on the words hacha and hacha and the context granted by the Mishna and brayta about how one incidentally salts the hide as he salts the meat. But as we shall see, the latter reading matches that attributed to Shmuel in a bit. Thus, I would side against the Rif here.
}
אמר רב מתנה הלכה כר' יהושע
ואיכא דאמרי אמר רב מתנה אין הלכה כרבי יהושע
וסוגיין דעלמא כלישנא בתרא
The Sages learnt {in a brayta}:
We may not salt cheilev {forbidden-to-eat fats, which are permissible to be used for other purposes -- one may not salt on Yom Tov} nor may we turn them over {to prevent spoilage, to dry both sides}. In the name of Rabbi Yehoshua they said: He may spread them {the fats} over pegs {so that they are exposed to the air on all sides}.
Rav Matna said: The halacha is like Rabbi Yehoshua.
And some say: Rav Matna said: The halacha is not like Rabbi Yehoshua.
And sugyot in general go in accordance with the latter formulation. {Thus, Rif rules against Rabbi Yehoshua.}
{Beitza 11b}
רב אדא בר אהבה (אמר) מערים ומלח גרמא גרמא:
Rav Yehuda cited Shmuel: One may salt many pieces at once, even though he only needs a single piece.
Rav Ada bar Ahava would be tricky and salt one piece at a time.
{Or, if we include the word אמר in there: Rav Ada bar Ahava said: He should be tricky and salt one piece at a time.}
וב"ה מתירין אף להחזיר
בש"א אין מוציאין לא את הקטן ולא את הלולב ולא את ס"ת לר"ה
וב"ה מתירין:
Mishna:
Bet Shammai say: We may not remove window shutters on Yom Tov {to display wares}.
And Bet Hillel permit even to return them {to their place}.
{Beitza 12a}
Bet Shammai say: We may not take out {from reshut hayachid} a child, a lulav, or a sefer Torah into the public domain {on Yom Tov}.
And Bet Hillel permit.
{Beitza 11a}
Gemara: