Monday, March 24, 2008

Rif Nedarim 27b {90b - 91b}


{Nedarim 90b}

א"ר פפא בדיק לן רבא אשת כהן שנאנסה יש לה כתובה או אין לה
כיון דאונס גבי כהן כרצון גבי ישראל וה"נ אין לה כתובה
או דלמא מצי אמרה אנא הא חזינא גברא הוא דלא חזי ונסתחפה שדהו
ואמינא ליה אנא מתניתין היא טמאה אני לך יש לה כתובה

Rav Pappa said: Rava tested us as follows: If the wife of a kohen was raped, does she receive her ketuba or does she not receive? Since rape as regards a kohen is like voluntary by an Israelite {in terms of becoming forbidden to her}, would we say that so too, she would not receive a ketuba? Or perhaps she can find to say, "I personally am fit {because I committed no sin},
{Nedarim 91a}
but it is only the man {that is, his status as kohen} who is not fit, and his field has been inundated?"
And I said to him {to Rava}: It is our Mishna: "I am defiled to you," she receives a ketuba.
{And now Rav Pappa analyzes it:}

במאי עסקינן אי נימא באשת ישראל
וה"ד אי ברצון כלום יש לה כתובה ואי באונס מי קמתסרא על בעלה
אלא באשת כהן ואי ברצון כלום יש לה כתובה מי גרעה מאשת ישראל
אלא באונס וקתני יש לה כתובה
With what are we dealing? If you say by the wife of an Israelite, then how so? If willingly, then she certainly receives no ketuba. And if unwillingly, would she be forbidden upon her husband? Rather, by the wife of a kohen. And if willingly, she would certainly receive no ketuba, for is she less than the same situation for the wife of an Israelite? Rather, unwillingly, and yet it teaches that she has a ketuba.

איבעיא להו אמרה לבעלה גרשתני מהו
אמר רב המנונא תא שמע האומרת טמאה אני לך ואפילו למשנה אחרונה דקתני דאל מהימנא
התם הוא דמשקרא דידעה דבעלה לא ידע אבל גבי גרשתני דידע בה מהימנא חזקה אין אשה מעיזה פניה בפני בעלה
אמר לו רבא אדרבה אפילו למשנה ראשונה דקתני דמהימנא משום דלא עבידא לבזויי נפשה אבל הכא זמנין דתקיף לה מן בעלה מעזיה ומעיזה

It was a question to them: If she says to her husband "you divorced me," what {is the law}?
Rav Hamnuna said: Come and hear: "One {woman} who says 'I am defiled to you,' and even according to the subsequent ruling, which teaches that she is not believed, there is where she is lying, for she knows that her husband does not know, but by "you divorced me," which he would know, she is believed, for there is a presumption that a woman will not act so brazenly before her husband.
Rava said to him: Just the opposite. Even according to the initial ruling in the Mishna, which taught that she was believed, this was because she would not expose herself to shame, but here, there are times that she is stronger-willed than her husband {so Ran; alternatively, according to Rashi: her husband did not treat her well}, she will indeed be so brazen.

ההיא אתתא דכל יומא דתשמיש הוית מייתא ליה מיא לממשי ידיה דגברא
יומא חד אייתת ליה מיא לממשי ידיה
א"ל מה דין הא מילתא לא הוה האידנא
א"ל א"כ חד מן אהלויי דהוו הכא אי את לא דלמא חד מנהון
א"ר נחמן עיניה נתנה באחר ולית מששא במלה.
There was a certain woman, who each day of intercourse, she would bring water to wash the hands of her husband. One day she brought him water to wash his hands.
He said to her: What is this matter? There was nothing this time!
{Nedarim 91b}
She said to him: If so, one of the gentile dealers in aloe {=perfume sellers} were here today. If it was not you, perhaps it was one of them.
Rav Nachman said: Her eyes were cast on another {and so she wanted this divorce}, and so there is no substance to her word.

הכא אתתא דלא הוי בדיחא דעתה בהדי גברא
א"ל האידנא מאי שנא
אמרה ליה מעולם לא ציערתן בדרך ארץ כי האידנא
אמר לא הוה הדא מילתא האידנא
א"ל א"כ הלין נפטויי דהוו הכא אי לאו את דלמא חד מנהון
א"ר נחמן לא תשגחון בה עיניה נותנת באחד ולית מששא במלה
There was a certain woman who showed displeasure with her husband.
He said to her: Why this change now?
She said to him: You have never caused me such pain in intercourse as today!
He said: There was nothing of the sort today.
She said to him: If so, there are these naphta sellers who are her. If not you, perhaps it was one of them.
Rav Nachman said: Do not heed her. Her eyes were cast upon another, and there is no substance to her word.

ההוא גברא דהוי מהרזק בביתא הוא ואתתא
חדא זימנא על ואתי מרי דביתיה פרטיה ההוא להוצא וערק
אמר רבא אתתא שריא דאי איתא דעביד איסורא ארכוסי הוי מרכס.
There was a certain man was closeted in the house, he and a {married woman}. One time, the master of the house came and entered, and so he broke through a hedge and fled.
Rava said: The woman is permitted, for if he were performing a prohibition, he would have hid in the house. {So that the husband would not know of his presence.}

ההוא נואף דעייל לגבי ההיא איתתא אתא גברא סליק נואף ויתיב אבלאי דבבא
והוו מחתון תמן תחלי דטעמינון חויא
בעא מרי דביתיה למיכל מהני תחלי בלא דעתא דאנתתיה
אמר ליה ההוא נואף לא תיכול מנהון דטעמינהון חויא
There was a certain adulterer who entered visited a certain woman. The husband came, and the aduterer went out and stayed behind the curtain by the door. And there was some cress there which a snake had tasted {and thus poisoned}.
The master of the house wished to eat from those cresses, without the knowledge of his wife.
The adulterer said to him: Do not eat of them, for a snake tasted them.

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