Rif Succah 20b {Succah 42a continues}

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20b

{Succah 42a continues}
And with what case are we dealing? Where he carried it out in a vessel.

But Rava is the one who said that taking via some other item is called taking! These words were when {the taking was} in a respectable manner, but in a non-respectable manner, no.

Mishna:
A woman accepts from the hand of her son or from the hand of her husband and returns it to the water on Shabbat.
Rabbi Yehuda says: On Shabbat we return it, on Yom Tov, we add, and on {chol ha}Moed we change {the water}.

And any minor who knows how to shake is obligated in lulav.

Gemara:
The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: A minor who knows how to shake is obligated in lulav. And one who knows how to wrap himself {in a cloth} is obligated in tzitzit. And one who knows how to guard his tefillin, his father is obligated to buy him tefillin. And one who knows how to speak, his
father teaches him Torah and reading of Shema.

Rav Hamnuna said {defining this}: {Torah = Devarim 33:4}

ד תּוֹרָה צִוָּה-לָנוּ, מֹשֶׁה: מוֹרָשָׁה, קְהִלַּת יַעֲקֹב.

4 Moses commanded us a law, an inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.

Reading of the Shema -- the first verse.

One who knows to guard his hands {that after washing them he does not touch something that is tamei or safek tamei}, one may eat from his hands {thus, that he has touched} taharot {=terumah, kodshim}.

If he knows how to respond intelligently to questions, in the private domain his doubt is impure; in the public domain, his doubt is pure.

{If he knows how} to spread out his hands {and say birkat kohanim; alternatively, cover his hands for impurity's sake}, we apportion him terumah in the granary.

One {minor} who knows how to slaughter, we eat from his slaughtering.

Rav Huna said: And this was where an adult {gadol} stood over him.

And if he is able to eat an olive's measure of grain, we distance ourselves from his feces and urine four cubits.

Rav Chisda said: And this was where he is able to eat it in the time it takes to consume a peras {=half a loaf of bread}.

Rav Chiyya bar Abba son of Avya: And an adult, even though he is unable to eat it in the time it takes to consume a peras.
For it is written {Kohelet 1:18}:

יח כִּי בְּרֹב חָכְמָה, רָב-כָּעַס; וְיוֹסִיף דַּעַת, יוֹסִיף מַכְאוֹב.

18 For in much wisdom is much vexation; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

If he is able to eat an olive's measure of roasted {meat} we slaughter upon him the Pesach.
What is the reason? For it is written {Shemot 12:4}:

ד וְאִם-יִמְעַט הַבַּיִת, מִהְיוֹת מִשֶּׂה--וְלָקַח הוּא וּשְׁכֵנוֹ הַקָּרֹב אֶל-בֵּיתוֹ, בְּמִכְסַת נְפָשֹׁת: אִישׁ לְפִי אָכְלוֹ, תָּכֹסּוּ עַל-הַשֶּׂה.

4 and if the household be too little for a lamb, then shall he and his neighbour next unto his house take one according to the number of the souls; according to every man's eating ye shall make your count for the lamb.

Rabbi Yehuda says: Until he knows how to distinguish eating. How so? You give him a pebble and he tosses it, a nut and he takes it.

END perek three - lulav hagazul