Friday, October 06, 2006

Rif Succah 15b {Succah 32b continues; 33a; 33b; 33a}



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15b

{Succah 32b continues}
Mishna:
A stolen myrtle {hadas} or a dried out one is invalid.
Of an {idolatrous} ashera tree or a pushed off city {of idolatry} is invalid.
If its top was cut off, its leaves were detached, or if its berries were more than its leaves, it is invalid.
And if he reduced them {the berries} it is valid. And we do not reduce {the berries} on Yom Tov.

Gemara:
The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: {Vayikra 23:40}:

מ וּלְקַחְתֶּם לָכֶם בַּיּוֹם הָרִאשׁוֹן, פְּרִי עֵץ הָדָר כַּפֹּת תְּמָרִים, וַעֲנַף עֵץ-עָבֹת, וְעַרְבֵי-נָחַל; וּשְׂמַחְתֶּם, לִפְנֵי יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם--שִׁבְעַת יָמִים. 40 And ye shall take you on the first day the fruit of goodly trees, branches of palm-trees, and boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook, and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days.
a tree which is thick, in that its leaves cover its etz. Thus we say that this is the myrtle {hadas}.

And the Sages learnt {in a brayta}: {avot meaning plaiting, thus} A tree which is plaited like a braid, and is similar to a chain, and this is the myrtle.
Rabbi Eleazar ben Yaakov says: וַעֲנַף עֵץ-עָבֹת, a tree that the taste of its wood and its fruit are equal. Thus we say that this is the myrtle.

They taught {tana}: If it was avot {twined}, it is valid. If it was not twined, it is invalid.
What is the definition of avot?
Rav Yehuda said: Such that there are three leaves on each stem.
Rav Kahana said: Even if there was two {leaves on one stem} and one {leaf on the other stem}.
Rav Acha son of Rava wuold seek after two {leaves on one stem} and one {leaf on the other stem}, since it left the mouth of Rav Kahana.
Mar bar Amemar said to Rav Ashi: Father {=Amemar} calls such {a myrtle} a foolish {wild} myrtle.

The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: If most of its leaves fell off and a minority is left, it is valid, so long is its avot-aspect {plaiting} remains.
{Succah 33a}
We find the Egyptian myrtle which has seven on each stem, such that even if four of them, which constitutes the majority, fell off, three are left on the stem and thus it is avot {plaited} and valid.

The Sages learnt {in a brayta}: If most of the leaves dried out and three moist leaves remain, it is valid.
Rav Chisda said: And at the top of each one {is where these moist leaves should be}.

"if its top was cut off":
Ulla bar Chanina taught {tanei}: if it head was broken off and a fruit-like excretion grew on it {covering the top of the myrtle} it is valid.

And we rule later on like Rabbi Tarfon who said that {three are needed} and even if all three are broken off {it is valid}. Therefore it does not matter if a fruit-like excretion grew on it or if a fruit-like excretion did not grow on it -- it is valid.

{Succah 33b}
"or if its berries were more than its leaves, it is invalid":
Rav Chisda said: The following thing Rabbenu the great {=Rav said}, may Hashem come to his help: They only learned this where they {=the berries} were black, but if they are green, they are like the myrtle and it is valid.

And Rav Papa said: And red ones are like black ones. For Rabbi Chanina said: This black {blood} is really red, except it has been affected {after it came out of the body, and thus the woman is considered a niddah}.

"And if he reduced them {the berries} it is valid. And we do not reduce {the berries} on Yom Tov":
It was taught {tana}: And if he violated and gleaned them {on Yom Tov, nevertheless} it is valid.

{Succah 33a}
They learnt {in a brayta}: A lulav, whether it is

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